Digital Circus

We discuss the viral internet series “The Amazing Digital Circus.” Does it live up to the insane hype? What is it about this weird show that resonates with so many, and why is dated CGI so gosh-darned charming?? Join us as we talk weird (or just evil?) AI, awesome character designs, and don’t forget the  T R A U M A ! !

Transcript

SPEAKER_05 0:00

Hi, welcome to the Tail Trail. I'm your host, Sharon, and with me is my brother Lyndon.

SPEAKER_03 0:04

Hello there.

SPEAKER_05 0:06

Here we talk about stories. Stories of any kind are welcome here.

SPEAKER_03 0:10

That's right.

SPEAKER_05 0:12

What was the story we have today, Lyndon?

SPEAKER_03 0:15

We've got a banger for you guys. We got um The Amazing Digital Circus.

SPEAKER_05 0:21

Yes, we actually caught up with the whole thing, except for the finale which is showing in theaters next week.

SPEAKER_03 0:29

Mm-hmm. On Thursday.

SPEAKER_05 0:31

So maybe this is bad timing, or maybe it's perfect timing to record this episode. But I guess I won't know the end until next week. But either way, we wanted to talk about it. So I have with me my notes of roughly summarizing the plot, and it looks like this one was a lot harder for me to summarize because this must be the longest plot summary I've written so far on this series. I mean on this show, the tailtrail. But I'll go for it. Here goes. The Amazing Digital Circus is basically a 90s VR game, inside of which a woman finds herself trapped after putting on the headset. She is now a cartoon jester character, and she meets five other cartoon characters who also claim to be humans trapped in the game, which is being run by a wacky ringmaster AI named Kane. Each day of the humans' lives is now spent playing Kane's more or less mandatory adventure games, which can slowly drive a person insane. Will the humans ever find a way to leave? Or will Kane torment them all in this colorful hell forever? Not ominous in any way. Oh yeah, it sounds like a good time. I love to go there, get stuck in there forever. No, I lied. I I think that would be very bad. That was my summary. I don't know if you have anything to add.

SPEAKER_03 1:44

That's a pretty good summary, honestly. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:46

Okay. Um do you have anything that you wanted to say first before I go into my notes?

SPEAKER_03 1:54

Uh I guess I should mention I have and still do. I'll have to watch that last episode. I have a very skeptical um point of view when I watched these episodes. And my first thoughts was that I was gonna be like, oh brother, like I don't know how I'm gonna think about this. But as the show went on, I started to warm up to it a bit.

SPEAKER_05 2:12

So yeah, I've got mixed emotions about it, but it's almost like you thought it was gonna be a certain thing when you started, and now you're saying it wasn't exactly what you were thinking, so you were more open-minded as you continued watching the show.

SPEAKER_03 2:25

Probably, yeah, that's accurate.

SPEAKER_05 2:27

Okay, sorry, I didn't quite know what you were saying just now. Yeah, so I know it's not like your favorite kind of thing, but even you and I were having fun with the dialogue in the show. The dialogue is quite quotable.

SPEAKER_03 2:38

It's quite funny, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 2:40

And I like the pacing of the show as well. It's very easy to watch. It's not like too fast or too slow, in my opinion. It's a relaxing pace while still being suspenseful. So what did I write here? The Amazing Digital Circus is categorized as a dark or surreal comedy and a psychological drama. Despite being heavily inspired by the horror story, I have no mouth, but I must scream. Discuss whether or not this take on that kind of story is genuinely scary or not. What did I mean by that?

SPEAKER_03 3:10

Uh I think you're trying to say that the show might be scarier than it seems.

SPEAKER_05 3:15

I think I think so. I wrote this a while ago, and I think when I wrote that, I was I was surprised to find that the show is not horror, even though I thought it was.

SPEAKER_00 3:25

It's a dread.

SPEAKER_05 3:26

But it was it never felt like horror to me unless it's of a psychological variety, but even then it still felt so much easier and less like morbid than something that's horror. So I was like, okay, yeah, psychological drama and surreal or dark comedy makes more sense. So, but that makes sense. But I'm also like, but this is heavily inspired by a really dark story. I read about it, I'll never read read it for real because I'm too scared to when I read about what happens in it. I'm like, yep, that's good enough for me. I I will never read that. But I think the idea is is this still scary? Is it possible for something to be scary when it isn't horror? When it isn't straight-up horror. Can it still be scary even if you're just like implying like something that's hard to grasp, like um eternal torment, perhaps, in the case of Digital Circus?

SPEAKER_03 4:17

Yeah, I think it has to do with point of view, honestly, but I definitely could see how it could be scary to some audiences for sure, almost horror-like as well.

SPEAKER_05 4:25

But I think what I wanted to say with this is that I don't think the show is scary, as in like I don't think it's difficult to watch, like it's not unpleasant to watch. But there are parts of it where I think if you're expecting it to be just like an easy relaxing show, they would be pretty shocking. So it's it's scary if you put yourself in the shoes of the characters too much.

SPEAKER_03 4:50

It can be if you do that, yes.

SPEAKER_05 4:52

Yeah, like the parts where they start to go insane, you know? Like uh I'm thinking of the part with Jax on episode seven. Yeah, the end of episode seven where he just starts laughing.

SPEAKER_00 5:02

I predicted that so hard though.

SPEAKER_05 5:04

I think that kind of hurt to watch, even though I know the people hate Jax, but I I don't hate Jax.

SPEAKER_03 5:13

Right?

SPEAKER_05 5:13

I actually he was my favorite at first, but then I then Kinger took took the spotlight. Yeah, I we'll get into Jax more later, but the show is kind of scary, or it's it makes your s your heart sink sometimes, because I think you really want these people to get out. You don't want them to be trapped forever. Uh forever. Forever. But at the same time, one thing that helps in the setting where everyone is trapped is that the humans are there for each other and supporting each other, except for Jax, but you know, making it a bit more wholesome than horrifying.

SPEAKER_03 5:48

Yeah, exactly. Low-key though, I feel like if I was in that situation, I'd be similar to what a Jax is. Not that extreme, but like I definitely wouldn't be. I'm not saying like their unity is cringy in the TV show, but whenever they're like, oh like we gotta stick together, I'm just like, yeah, I don't think I'd be on the same boat, honestly. I'd probably be in my own boat with like Jax or something.

SPEAKER_05 6:09

But I think given the circumstance as much as like people hate Jax, I feel like most people might be kind of like Jax, to be honest, because if everything is quote unquote isn't real and there's seemingly no consequences to your actions because people don't die, you would kind of stop caring.

SPEAKER_04 6:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 6:29

And it seems like, oh, Jax is such a horrible person, but I do think he's pretty realistic. But I keep going right into Jax when I was gonna talk about that later. But anyways, so is is digital circus scary or not? It depends on your point of view, we're saying. Lyndon's saying kind of. I'm saying yes, but only if you are thinking too deeply about it. And sometimes it's a little bit scary, like the angel episode was kind of like scary in a creepy pasta kind of way. Oh, my next point says discuss how subtlety can be truly menacing when executed well. I did want to talk about this a bit because I think in scary or I think in movies and shows today they tend to like show you everything right at your face.

SPEAKER_03 7:13

Exactly.

SPEAKER_05 7:14

And I actually prefer when scary stuff is implied because it's uh not only scarier, but it's also more respectful of the audience and of the fictional victim, I guess I should say. I'm not saying you can't ever show anything to people's face, but I I really feel like we do that too much just for shock, and it's very Yeah, that's why I don't normally feel disrespectful to me, or at least cheap.

SPEAKER_03 7:40

Yeah, cheap is the word uh I describe it.

SPEAKER_05 7:43

I was gonna say uh that when especially when uh they make like really cute and innocent stuff into horror. Uh like when they twist like say like a cute little kid's cartoon into something really horrifying, like i.e. with like gratuitous violence or cannibalism or something like that. It always ends up leaving me feeling sick to my stomach, but nothing more. Like it's not it's usually not actually very profound or deep. It's not you don't need to do that to get your point across most of the time, I think. So it's like, oh wow, that made me feel horrible, but then it then you forget about it later.

SPEAKER_03 8:18

That's probably the type of horror, if you want to call it in quotes, that I would actually enjoy is the subtle, eerie feeling of someone being in trouble or this happened to such and such in the slight and subtle ways this does it, makes it more scary in a way, because it's subtle about it and it gets people thinking.

SPEAKER_05 8:38

Yeah. And then I I continued writing in my notes, something like Digital Circus feels more subdued and thoughtful. So that even when it is dealing with existentialism and torment, it doesn't terrify you so much as it connects with you. So yeah, it is like if it's a if it's horror, it's not really horror, but it is existentialism. I think it's yeah, it's not terrifying so much as it's relatable. I'm sorry, I'm like that was a depressing thing to say. But every human being in s on some level can relate to feeling like fear of death or or torment or or being trapped. Yeah, I'd say a digital circus probably is so popular because it's relatable, but also because it's unique and colorful and very strange. There isn't really anything around quite like it. I think other than I have no mouth and I must scream, it is inspired by Poppy the performer, but I've never seen that, but apparently it's like a really violent circus cartoon.

SPEAKER_01 9:36

Yikes.

SPEAKER_05 9:36

So maybe that's similar, I don't know, but I've never seen it. But I still feel like this is probably a bit more classy than that. Um, do you have anything else to say about Digital Circus, like as a story? Like which part so far was your favorite?

SPEAKER_03 9:53

My favorite part? Oof, brother. Uh probably again, we'll probably talk about it more in detail, but probably uh Jax's part when he kind of goes insane almost goes insane at the end of that one uh adventure. I saw it coming, so I was like, this is gonna happen profoundly.

SPEAKER_05 10:13

When he's basically like, you're just lying to us. Like, okay, okay. For a second I didn't know if you were talking about the part where he like crashes out with Pomney and is like, I am just evil, I don't care about people at all, and I hate you and I'll forget you. And or I or the part where he's he's having a nightmare.

SPEAKER_01 10:31

No, no, none of those parts.

SPEAKER_05 10:33

I wasn't sure which part you're talking about, but I love that part too. It's very uh cathartic to see Jax like just kind of say what everyone else is thinking, and I'm actually surprised it came from Jax because he's the one who seems like he doesn't care. But that's probably why it hits so hard, isn't it doesn't it? Because he does care, because he's human like everyone else, he doesn't want to go through this.

SPEAKER_03 10:52

And I also think that's why he hit the re uh the button to stay. Because he knew it was fake, I think.

SPEAKER_05 10:59

That's my theory of the thing. I'm still not sure why. There's a theory that Kane made him do that because Kane has some minimal control over their minds. I was like, uh But my thought was he panicked, or my thought was he was actually too scared to go back home because he had That's another thing. He had a flash some kind of flashback of a highway in Missouri, apparently. Missouri, I don't know why that's so traumatizing. Something happened to him in Missouri. Maybe he had a car accident. But like he was like thinking of that and before he pushed the button, right? So it's possible that he suddenly was like, I don't know if I want to go back because I don't know what I'm gonna find. But he also was really mad when he found out that they wouldn't have been able to go back anyway, and like starting to lose it. So I think it's quite possible that he either panicked or he pushed the red button because he he knew deep down that this is exactly what was gonna happen.

SPEAKER_03 11:53

What's your favorite scene?

SPEAKER_05 11:55

I really like a lot of the scenes where Kinger is talking about his wife. It's just really it really makes you realize just how long Kinger has held out and how he's continued just being such a kind person somehow. It's amazing, and the guy deserves to be reunited with his wife, so I really hope the other characters, like the ones who have abstracted, are not like dead, dead. That's fine. Like I hope that probably dead. But I don't want them to be dead, and I really don't want them to find them dead or something. So I would want because I want Kangar and Queenie to come back together. That would be awesome. Uh Kanger deserves it. He's the best.

SPEAKER_03 12:34

He's like the most Something tells me it's not gonna happen.

SPEAKER_05 12:36

I know, but he's like the most dad-coded character. He's my favorite character. He's just impossible not to like. And my husband's favorite character as well. My husband hates Jax, by the way. He reminds him too much of real people. And he just very disturbed by the way he's like emotionally manipulates people or like gaslights them, you know. It's it's it is pretty nasty. It would be Jax would not be pleasant to be around in real life. However, as a character, Jax is certainly one of the most interesting characters in the show. I know the younger fans of the series are probably gonna come after me for that, assuming they're even listening, but it's alright. We can have different opinions. You don't have to like Jax. Um I do, but I understand that he is not a nice person, definitely not. Um, my next note is Oh, it's a question. Does every scary or heavy story need moments of hope? Why or why not? Interesting, because I do I think I wrote that down because I thought that Digital Circus is a lot more hopeful than I thought it was gonna be. Especially from the first episode when it ends, you're kind of like, so basically she's just gonna go crazy here. Yeah. And then in this but as soon as even the second episode, the ending is very different. Instead of ending with like that horrible, like mind-bending music, and she's just looking like like insane, realizing she can't leave, and this is what reality is. And then in the second episode, it's that same song being played very softly and gently on the piano, and her friends are reaching to help her up out of that sort of like dark pit that she was in mentally. I was really surprised, and that made me like the show a lot more. I might not have continued watching if it was just existential dread.

SPEAKER_03 14:24

I find, yeah, if this show didn't have like where it's like the audience didn't have any hope or reason to think that they had hope, it would seem a bit more lame. Like it gives it more depth.

SPEAKER_05 14:36

Well, if there is no hope of them getting out at all, or of them even being real humans, because apparently that is hasn't even been confirmed for sure.

SPEAKER_01 14:44

Ooh, that would be a horrible AI. That would be so messy.

SPEAKER_05 14:48

If they're just like if they're just human consciousness or something, that's also kind of sad, because then they have nothing to go back to. They just are like someone's memories sitting in a computer. I don't like that, but that's a very popular theory. Okay, so but let's just assume that there is something to go back to and they're human.

SPEAKER_00 15:08

It better be.

SPEAKER_05 15:09

Do you think what if it was like the Lego movie? When like they go back and it's like live action.

SPEAKER_03 15:17

Well, I feel like they're gonna animate it. Maybe the if they do real life, uh, so be it. But I feel like it would be more appropriate to do it like when they get out and they're humans, they like animate it.

SPEAKER_05 15:29

Either way is fine to me because like the show is already animated. I don't think the Lego movie is worse for having the live action parts. I just like it doesn't really take away from the animation. I think it's just kind of funny. So I think I just think that would be funny. I don't and then like what if the actual voice actors played themselves? That would be funny too. But like Michael Kovac just like shows up, but that's right.

SPEAKER_03 15:54

By the way, if I yawn, it's because I'm tired.

SPEAKER_05 15:57

I I keeping it there goes my English. I'm keeping this guy up. He he worked all day and now I'm making him work here.

SPEAKER_03 16:06

This ain't work. This is party time.

SPEAKER_05 16:08

Oh, it is still work. My brain is already starting to melt. Um, so I guess to answer my own question, I think I think not every scary or heavy story needs moments of hope, but I do think your story will be better for it. Because I still think you can make a point in a story without hope.

SPEAKER_01 16:31

Oh, yes.

SPEAKER_05 16:32

But it's it's going to be better with hope, I think. Um, did you see the new Frankenstein?

SPEAKER_03 16:38

Then which one?

SPEAKER_05 16:39

Like the Netflix one. Like I can't pronounce the director's name.

SPEAKER_03 16:45

Trailers, but I have not seen it.

SPEAKER_05 16:46

Like Guilamore Del Toro. Guillermo Del Toro. I will never please forgive me, Mr. Del Toro. I will never try to say your name again. Can't say I have no Okay, but my point was I saw it recently, and it was very difficult to watch, in my opinion. It was very heavy and grisly and just so so sad. Just one bad thing after another. But the monster himself was not scary. He was just sad, like he just makes you feel sorry for him. And in the end, I actually cried so much because it had I I was not expecting this because the movie was so heavy, so sad, so depressing, and then the end was just beautiful and hopeful. I was like that was the last thing I was expecting. So I really think if it didn't have that ending, I probably would have been like, yeah, I didn't like that movie. It was like visually like very artistic and beautiful, but I don't didn't I can't say that I walked away from it feeling like better for having watched it. But when that ending happened, I was like, Yeah, that was worth it. So I do recommend that movie, but only if you can handle it up to the end. Oh, I think I already asked who your favorite character was, Linen.

SPEAKER_03 18:07

Uh yeah, but I might change my hand. Like, it's between Kinger and Jax.

SPEAKER_05 18:12

I wrote a note underneath the question saying, hint, if it's not Kinger, you're fired. So I must have been really I was really wanting you to pick Kinger too, but I think it's totally okay if you don't pick Kinger.

SPEAKER_03 18:27

Or it or it might not even be any of the main characters. It might be um uh what's uh what's his name?

SPEAKER_05 18:35

The bad guy? Well yeah Kane Kane Kane is a really fun character. I love him. Kane is super fun though, like even though he's like at first a lot of people are like, oh, he's not really bad. Even my uh we have other brothers and sisters. Um one of our brothers, he was like surprised when I told him that Kane goes crazy later and is like a bad guy, has a villain song and everything.

SPEAKER_03 18:58

And which is awesome.

SPEAKER_05 19:00

Yeah, I think that's awesome. But it also confirms what I was kind of suspecting. Like, okay, Kane is actually the villain here, the antagonist. He's not just like a unin uh what do you call it? He's not inadvertently the antagonist, he actually is intentionally hurting these people. Well, I think eventually he like gets to that point where he snaps and he's gonna be able to do that.

SPEAKER_02 19:22

And honestly, they kind of provoked it though, so I say they get what they asked for.

SPEAKER_05 19:25

Yeah, but at the same time, he wasn't cooperating at all, he wasn't being reasonable. Maybe he's not capable of being reasonable because he's an AI with limited capacity to understand. Um, but I know our brother was like, What? He did not seem like he was intentionally bad. And then I showed him the who's running the show song, and he was like, his eyebrows slowly go up, and he's like, that's awful. The full name of the song is Don't Forget Who's Running the Show.

SPEAKER_00 19:57

I think.

SPEAKER_05 19:58

Yeah. And I don't think it's anything that spectacular on its own, it's just like a typical show bit uh showtune style uh Broadway kind of song. But the what makes it stand out is the words because the type of thing he's singing in that bouncy upbeat way is really it's very sharply contrasted. Like uh oh, what's a word, what's a line from the song I could say? Like um, sorry, I was just looking here for the lyrics, uh, because they I I kind of know them and then they just left my brain. But uh one part of the song goes, so play the games and just ignore the pains. Because all that remains is how you prime your brains. You whine to me, but you're too blind to see that I'm the one who's running the show. And this is all like very uh I like that. Well, it all kind of sounds like something from Mary Poppins or something. Almost so the lyrics there where he's like, oh what a shame, you know, like like uh oh cry about it. Uh you're not the one who's in control here, so just uh take it on the chin, even he says like take the hit, and just yeah, it's a it's a very cruel song, and that's why I think it stands out a bit, because it's it doesn't sound like something evil, but the words are really evil, so I like it. Oh, and in this uh this part I wrote, is there a difference between being an evil person and being a bad person? The reason why I wrote that is because a lot of people think that Jax is evil or Jack or Kane is evil, but then there's also a lot of people defending Jax and Kane, and that's I do think that's kind of interesting why people are taking sides about that. Is being a bad person the same as being evil?

SPEAKER_03 21:50

No, because I can see where Jax is coming from.

SPEAKER_05 21:53

Yeah, and I don't want to be like defending Jax because I don't think his behavior is acceptable in any way. But I do defend him as like a human being and a and a well, okay, he's not really a human being because he's just a fictional character. But if he was a human being, I would defend that he there is a very real reason why he is that way, but at the same time, it's he still has a choice and he keeps choosing the destructive way. But I don't think he's actually evil. I think he's terrified, even on that part when he's like, You are my playthings, and that's all you are to me. His face is like really afraid, and he's after he says all that, he's shaking and then he starts to like play it off as a joke again. So it's like he he in my he wants them to think that. He's just trying to cope with something, but he's he's that is the that was the most desperate push I've ever seen to like push people away. And say saying that alone actually like shook him up so bad that he went and had a panic attack. So I don't think he actually meant it. The problem is he he he almost wishes it was true that they're all just nobody and nothing to him and he doesn't care. Unfortunately, he does care, but he doesn't want to care because he doesn't want to feel the pain of losing friends again. So he's probably reacting, he's probably panicking because he's realizing that he would care if something happened to Bombi.

SPEAKER_03 23:30

Yeah, something like that.

SPEAKER_05 23:31

But that's something like that for for sure. He was clearly lying on that part.

SPEAKER_03 23:36

Yeah, he was.

SPEAKER_05 23:37

But I think a lot of people took that for real, or they were just offended at the horrible things he said to her, and it's true they were horrible things, and they're like, wow, I hate Jax, I can't believe he's so bad. And I mean first of all, I believe it, but second of all, I think he's lying. Like, I believe that people people can be pushed to the worst versions of themselves, especially in those situations. So yes, I believe it, but I don't think he meant it either. Um, do you have any thoughts about Kane though? Because that's a different story. Kane is not a human, so we can't give him the oh well what would any human do in this situation?

SPEAKER_03 24:16

I honestly don't think he's like the villain either. Like, I don't know if there's a clear like hear me out. I don't know if there's a clear villain.

SPEAKER_05 24:24

Might have to disagree with you.

SPEAKER_03 24:26

Well, because in he's an AI, right? Like I'm taking this from his point of view. His point of view I don't think he truly cares about them. I think he the only purely cares about pleasing uh them because his mission is to entertain them, and the the fact that they were getting mad at him and clearly not being entertained slowly drove the AI crazy because it wasn't fulfilling its destiny, which in my opinion would justify the crash out he has and the song, which is I'm not saying all the things he did was good, no, very bad. But I don't really see him as a villain. Like he's an AI, like that's a that's a justifiable reaction from an AI.

SPEAKER_05 25:12

I think even if he's and by the way, I think it's good if we disagree, because that just makes the show more interesting, if we disagree uh more often, even like I'm not saying oh we have to disagree, but if we do, that's just all the more reason to talk about it. But I do think I disagree, not because okay, I think he functions as a villain for all intents and purposes. So he's the story's villain, even if he doesn't see it that way. No villain sees himself as the villain. Yeah, but and he yeah, and you could say like, well, it's not his fault because he's an AI.

SPEAKER_03 25:45

Well Kinger said he's an AI, so I'm not saying.

SPEAKER_05 25:48

I mean he is he is an AI, but have has there not ever been like evil robots who seem to have like feelings, but they still turn evil? Or like good robots who choose to be good anyway. So like in this for the sake of fiction, I'm like, yeah, this is an evil AI, or he becomes evil slowly.

SPEAKER_03 26:06

AI in itself, the character, doesn't seem like it's a good thing because it he's set there to trap them basically and keep them from going insane, so keep their brains active or something. I don't want to say it's like an Ultron thing, but like it's like all the AIs uh in these movies, they're just trying to achieve what their goal was. So I'm not saying like whether the goal is bad or not. I could see him being a villain, but I'll still stick with the side of I I'm not sure if if there is a clear villain in the description.

SPEAKER_05 26:37

I think I think it's clear that he's a villain. It wasn't at first though. To me, I was like, he's not he's certainly not intentionally a villain. But then it went on episode eight, I guess, when he does that, has that crash out and he's like, I am God. Um I really enjoy Kane when he loses it, it was quite fun to watch.

SPEAKER_02 26:59

But You're parasiting!

SPEAKER_05 27:01

Yeah, but like even when he goes really off the rails, he's like, I'm God and you are all nothing. Okay, so he it really became clear to me when he started to intentionally torture them because his whole like defense before was like if I am torturing anybody, that's 100% not my intention. My only job here is to make you guys happy, you know? And now he's like, I don't even care if you're happy, I'm going to go out of my way to torture you now. I'm gonna look for specific things that I know you personally hate. Like he showed Ragatha her mother or something, who she is afraid of, and he like knows Jax is uh another reason why I think Jax is just afraid. He's afraid of vulnerability, of people seeing how vulnerable he is. So he just acts like awful to cover it up in uh his torture of Jax. He rips his skin off, and then Jax is like like weirdly naked. Um I'm not sure what you would call that. Now it doesn't sound it doesn't look as horrible as it sounds because these are like dated 90s CGI characters, so he just looks like yellow underneath his purple skin, and he's like covering up like he's naked, you know. He's he doesn't want people to see his shame, his vulnerability, uh his humanity, really. Um, but Kane knows that somehow and took advantage of that. Like, and just he did he's not like even mocking at me, like just ripped it right off.

SPEAKER_03 28:33

That's another thing. I feel like people underestimate how much he knew about uh all the characters. Like he probably knows all there is to know about them.

SPEAKER_05 28:42

He seems to know what they're afraid of. He even like like for Pomia now people were like, Wow, hers was like the least scary, but I still think it was awful for him to make like Gamigu into this like horrible like demon type thing, because that was like her her first friend in the circus, even though he was an NPC.

SPEAKER_03 29:01

What friend? He was an NPC.

SPEAKER_05 29:03

He was an NPC, but she made an emotional connection with him and that helped her on her one of her first weeks or something, and then he just you know kills him. And and not only that, but he mi he transforms him into this like horrifying creature just because he knows it will hurt Fomni. Like he's doing this on purpose intentionally. He you can't say he's not doing it intentionally anymore. He has malicious intent. That's why I'm saying he's actually a villain to me. He's evil. Even though he's maybe like an AI who is completely like glitched out or something, he still like has evil intent. Even if it's a mistake in coding or what? Programming.

SPEAKER_03 29:45

Yeah, for sure. He's definitely getting into more extreme ways to get them to go on his uh adventures for sure.

SPEAKER_05 29:51

I can't really defend him because he's doing this on purpose.

SPEAKER_03 29:55

Mm-hmm. He is.

SPEAKER_05 29:56

And he knows it too. So yeah, that's that's pretty darn villain.

SPEAKER_03 30:02

Until King in the background.

SPEAKER_05 30:05

Yeah, and then Kinger accidentally kills him, but Kinger could never be evil. Kinger is he's the goat.

SPEAKER_03 30:10

Turns out in the finale, they kill him.

SPEAKER_05 30:13

No, if Kinger dies, if Kinger dies, me and my husband are gonna be so pissed. That'll that'll suck. But hopefully that doesn't happen. It would be nice if like all the main characters could somehow like live.

SPEAKER_03 30:27

I have a feeling I don't think they're all gonna get out of the way.

SPEAKER_05 30:30

I have a feeling one of them is gonna die. Um there was a theory early on. Well I don't know if it was if it's as prominent now, but early on in the first episode there is they're eating all on one side of that long table, which is weird, but if you look at it when it zooms out, that's because it's a reference to the Last Supper painting. Everyone is eating on one side of the table, and who's in the middle? Jesus, right? Well, who's in the middle here? Pomney, which makes me think that maybe Pomney will die, and that was a theory that somebody came up with, but it could very well be. And Jax may or may not have been in Judas's place, I can't remember. But of course that would make perfect sense because he's kinda but I don't know like if that means there'll be significant betrayal or not, or if someone will unintentionally betray somebody, or if that was just like a little Easter egg. I kind of doubt it though. It was probably foreshadowing something. I just don't know what yet. Um, one thing that some people have been talking about is some people think that Pommy is like a really, really boring protagonist. Do you agree or disagree with that?

SPEAKER_03 31:34

I definitely think it's pretty shallow, like from my perspective. Uh one thing for me, yeah, she was definitely could have been fleshed out a little more. She definitely seems dull to me. Uh and I never actually ended up loving the character, personally. I think she's okay, but they definitely probably could have done a bit more with her.

SPEAKER_05 31:55

I like Pomney because she feels like really normal. Um that's exactly what I got. She's not too good or too bad. Like, Jax is like the extreme of like what could happen to someone in the circus. And then Pomney is more like average. Like, for example, early on she kind of leaves Ragatha behind to save her own neck, and she does feel bad about that, but she doesn't know these people either. So I feel like, yeah, that's more realistic. Like, she's not intentionally hurting anyone, but she's also like doesn't know what's going on or if this is even real and just wants to save herself.

SPEAKER_03 32:32

Well that's the normal response to like like that's probably what I would have done at first sight to like see if you could get out. That's what I would have done.

SPEAKER_05 32:39

Yeah, like well, you're not a person, you're a freaking ragdoll. I I gotta I gotta get out of this crazy place. And then I think Ragatha I like Ragatha, but she's like she's super, super nice, and I think that's her personality is trying really hard trying really hard to be nice, and that's a flaw. But I do think it's it's a little bit unrealistic. She seems too much of a people to be like to keep to keep up that really, really nice um personality in this kind of situation. Um and then Zubel just kind of like doesn't care anymore about Zubul. Oh, I like Zubul.

SPEAKER_03 33:15

I really don't like Zoom.

SPEAKER_05 33:15

I think Zubel just like stopped caring a long time ago, but she does still care about people or they. But basically with Zubal, I think they are they still care about people, like they care about their friends, but they don't care about anything else anymore. So that's more realistic, and then Gangle is like always sad, so that's really realistic. And then I shouldn't really fault Ragatha because that's like a good thing if she can keep her nice personality, but I think it works I like Kinger a lot more because he when he's not being really kind and gentle, he's just like has amnesia and is acting really weird. But it's almost like he's so he's seen so much that he's realized that the most important thing that you can do with your existence is to be kind to people because they're all going through something. And maybe Ragatha Ragatha's been there longer than anyone else other than Kinger, so maybe that's why she's so nice. I'm not trying to say this is like a bad thing about Ragatha, I just think it's a little bit like surprising, and there are other characters, so I think yeah, that makes a lot more sense to me. I think Pomney could be more interesting for sure, but I still like her. It might be that I also really like her design, and I like that she's just like a normal person stuck in this weird situation, but I do think that Jax and Kinger and even Zubel and Gangle are more interesting. And then Ragatha is is nice, but I I can't she's a little bit interesting, but I don't think she's as interesting as the other characters. No, Ragatha.

SPEAKER_03 34:46

Ragatha, yeah. I don't know.

SPEAKER_05 34:48

Again Gangle is kind of funny to me. Like I like Gangle and like a example. She's so like she's just always sad and then her mask breaks all the time. And I don't mean that I think it's funny that she's always sad, but like her character, like the situation she ends up in is funny to me.

SPEAKER_03 35:03

I'd almost say Gangle is like the second best at coping with the situation, other than Kinger.

SPEAKER_05 35:08

Like it's crying all the time.

SPEAKER_03 35:10

Well, it seems like yeah, she just accepts the I don't know.

SPEAKER_05 35:13

Do you mean Gangle or Zubil?

SPEAKER_03 35:14

Gangle.

SPEAKER_05 35:15

Really? She just accepts it? She's really sad.

SPEAKER_03 35:18

Like yes, but like she it seems like that's her character though.

SPEAKER_05 35:22

Like the She can't help but be sad because of her m her comedy mask breaking.

SPEAKER_03 35:28

Harshly, but I think she's probably a bit sad, but like I don't know. The others, their coping mechanisms almost don't seem as healthy other than like Kinger, obviously.

SPEAKER_05 35:36

Well, I think Ragatha, despite being the second longest person there, second to Kinger, she's more she's still fairly immature, kind of, because she's like trying so hard to please everybody and worried about and like maybe being a bit too controlling upon me and stuff. Whereas I think Zubal, and I know you said you didn't like Zubal that much, but I think Zubal is like Kinger in that they're more mature than the others.

SPEAKER_03 36:04

Uh I don't know. I don't know if Zubal seem she seems like almost a little bit more immature than the others.

SPEAKER_05 36:10

Really?

SPEAKER_03 36:11

I don't know if in my in my personal opinion. Well not like you mean the way they're always like avoiding the She's always just like I don't know, she seems more vi verbally violent, like angry all the time.

SPEAKER_05 36:22

Yeah, but not like at people, just at Kane. Or or just in like just part of her personality, but yeah, but then they're like always like trying to help people at the end of the day, I think.

SPEAKER_03 36:37

I think so. That's it.

SPEAKER_05 36:38

So that's that's what I really appreciate about Zobel. I also like when they put all the arms so they can carry four guns at once. That was cool.

SPEAKER_03 36:47

That was neat. Yeah, that was probably one of my favorite episodes. They all get guns.

SPEAKER_05 36:52

I love I love how Kinger is like a actually really good with a gun. And it was fun to see Jackson Pomney as Chaotic Evil, but of course it ends badly, but it was a really cool episode, and it made me want to play laser tag or something.

SPEAKER_03 37:09

No, we need a digital circus style laser tag building. We need that.

SPEAKER_05 37:15

I would so go to that. You know, in Japan there's like digital circus restaurants.

SPEAKER_03 37:20

What already? Oh my goodness.

SPEAKER_05 37:22

Jack's pancakes and palney burgers.

SPEAKER_03 37:25

I'm gonna have to go to Japan, guys.

SPEAKER_05 37:27

I I would I'm really jealous of of the drinks and food there. It looks really good, actually. But conclusion. What are our final thoughts on the show? Bonus points if you can imagine what kind of character you'd end up as if you got stuck in the digital circus. My headcanon is that you would be like like a sheepdog or something. No, actually, I just said that because okay, there was already like a dog character, the first abstraction, scratch, right? But I'm trying to think of what you would be, because like no offense, but your beard is really scruffy right now.

SPEAKER_02 38:03

Uh I need to get rid of this thing.

SPEAKER_03 38:06

Your facial Just imagine me without it.

SPEAKER_05 38:08

Okay, forget that. Personality-wise, what would you be if you were a weird 90s CGI thing?

SPEAKER_03 38:16

I feel like I would be. I would definitely be wanting to get the heck out of there.

SPEAKER_05 38:23

Yeah, but what kind of character do you think you would manifest as?

SPEAKER_03 38:27

Like of these of the groups?

SPEAKER_05 38:29

Maybe like a cartoon elephant. Oh. Like a top hat.

SPEAKER_03 38:33

I feel no, I feel like I would most definitely be some kind of lizard of some kind. I don't know why.

SPEAKER_05 38:40

A lizard. Actually, I could see that. And then apparently there was a frog character beforehand, Rivet. So you would like fit right in there somewhere.

SPEAKER_03 38:48

Something like that.

SPEAKER_05 38:49

I feel like I would be something A rabbit? I would kind of want to be like a weird little animal character, or like a weird cartoon thing, like uh Pomney is like this gesture character.

SPEAKER_03 38:59

Oh yeah, no, so something like that.

SPEAKER_05 39:01

Like maybe some kind of like old 1930s cartoon character, sort of like Oswald the Rabbit or something. Or like uh Mickey Mouse, Felix the Cat, like some kind of little rubber hose looking thing. I feel like that's what I would be.

SPEAKER_03 39:16

Probably.

SPEAKER_05 39:17

Um, and if if I was an animal, I don't know. Maybe I don't want to say a bunny because then Jax is a bunny, but he's like very different for a bunny. Like, no, yeah, there's different designs. He's like the least bunny. He's the least like a real bunny out of all the cartoon bunnies.

SPEAKER_03 39:34

No, I really like Jax's is probably my favorite design.

SPEAKER_05 39:37

I do really like Jax's design and Pommy's design, they're my favorite. I also like uh Gangle's design with her body being ribbons.

SPEAKER_01 39:46

Very creative.

SPEAKER_05 39:47

And she can somehow fill out the manager's uniform. I don't know how, if they just inflated it or what, but final thoughts on the show. I really like it. It got so popular so quickly. Oh, uh out of ten? Well, not yet. Okay, well, wait, wait. Okay, so I was there when the first when the pilot dropped. So I watched it kind of right before it became insanely popular. And I'm glad I did because I have a problem, and it's totally a bias of mine, but but when something gets insanely popular and everyone in their mom is telling me I have to watch it, it makes me want to never watch it. And that's happened with a lot of things, like for example, my hero academia, I never really picked it up again because everyone couldn't shut up about it, and they were all saying different things, and I didn't know what to think, and it was very overwhelming, and I never finished it. Um, but I watched Demon Slayer before it blew up, and now I just keep watching it, and so but the people are like, Oh, you don't watch popular things? Well, what about Demon Slayer? I'm like, well, that's the thing, it wasn't popular when I started, and now I don't care if it's popular because I like it already. I already liked it by then, but I don't want to watch something just because it's popular, if that makes sense. So I'm glad I watched Digital Circus before it became like over 400 million views or whatever. I like it better than some of the other glitch productions so far. I didn't like murder drones that much. It was too it wasn't bad, per se. I'm gonna make myself sound like a wimp. It was a bit too dark for me, but in especially in the tone, like how the show treats violence as kind of like normal or like a joke, like characters dying all the time and it's nobody cares that it happened in the show. At least with like minor characters or whatever. So I would that just rubbed me the wrong way, where I'm kinda like, okay, well then who am I supposed to care about then? And why am I only supposed to care about like certain deaths? Like, I don't know, it's just kind of the tone is kind of a bit mean, I think. Like uh at least that's how I felt, but it was still like well animated and stuff. I just didn't really like the characters that much. They were all kind of like I mean it's the show is called Murder Drones, so I guess they were all just kind of murdering each other and I didn't like it. But uh I did really like I like a gaslight district so far, but it's too early to say much about that one. Same with Knights of Guinevere. Uh I really like Game Averse, so actually I think I'm gonna like that one. But yeah, so far Digital Circus is my favorite. Um, I think I like it better than Meta Runner 2, but I liked MetaRunner. Um out of 10, I maybe give it a I don't wanna like overhype it, but I do really enjoy it. So like seven or eight.

SPEAKER_01 42:41

That's fair.

SPEAKER_05 42:42

Yeah, because it's not like the best thing I've ever seen, but I really enjoy it. I especially like the unique look of it. It's super awesome. I miss 90s CGI sometimes. It's just nostalgic. It looks awful and yet it's kind of comforting. I don't know.

SPEAKER_03 42:58

I love it. It just yeah, it looks like home.

SPEAKER_05 43:01

I like old cartoons. And how about you?

SPEAKER_03 43:07

My thoughts on it. So, this is coming from a perspective of watching it when it was already blew up, so I had I didn't have high expectations at all.

SPEAKER_05 43:15

You came into it very cynic in it with a cynical mindset because you're like, oh yeah, this is what everyone can't shut up about.

SPEAKER_03 43:21

I know, right? It's like this is what all the rage is about. And I it didn't ruin it for me, because again, I said I ended up liking it more than I thought I would. Because it kind of saved itself as the episodes can't went by, because the first two were a bit boring, uh, but it's kind of warming you up to the world. So then it as the episodes go by, I start to like it more because there's character development and interesting things are happening. So yeah, like the whole story itself was is the idea is great, the story was good, not anything amazing, but good uh so far. I can't wait to see the last episode. But yeah, Jack's my My favorite character probably. Uh Kinger is a great guy too. And then Kane is obviously uh I love Kane because he's funny.

SPEAKER_05 44:06

I also really like Bubble, like completely. I forgot to mention Bubble. Apparently Bubble is a beach party. I thought Bubble was a a girl, but I guess it's a guy, although it's played. Bubble is played by a girl, I think. But Bubble has is such a troll.

SPEAKER_03 44:22

He's great.

SPEAKER_05 44:23

Bubble has some of the best lines to quote. By the way, we said the show is very quotable. Let's prove it by quoting something.

SPEAKER_02 44:30

You're convoluted.

SPEAKER_05 44:32

Welcome back, my mewing milkmaid. Don't ever call us that again.

SPEAKER_02 44:37

I forgot he said that. That's terrible.

SPEAKER_05 44:39

Well, this is some inconvenient lore placement.

SPEAKER_02 44:41

Oh, I love that line. That one's probably my line.

SPEAKER_05 44:44

Kangar has some really great lines.

SPEAKER_00 44:46

Like, out of nowhere, my husband started mumbling, like, you are definitely not finding my sunken treasure.

SPEAKER_05 44:54

I'm the one that tells lies.

SPEAKER_00 44:57

Dude, you ruined it.

SPEAKER_05 44:59

So, yeah, you're probably gonna remember a lot of the silly random things that people say on this show.

SPEAKER_03 45:05

Exactly. So there are some funny parts about it. I will say, and like maybe I'll get hate for this, but like I will say, I don't personally think like it's it's famous regardless of what I'm gonna say here, but I don't think it deserves to be as famous as it is, in my opinion. I think it just it seems like it's I don't know, it just it blew up, and then everyone's saying it's much better than it actually is. But I guess we'll have to see the final episode.

SPEAKER_05 45:33

But Well, do you think that it's it's famous because it's popular because it's different?

SPEAKER_03 45:39

Uh it very well could be.

SPEAKER_05 45:42

I think it is. Even if it's not like the greatest thing you've ever seen, even if people act like it's the greatest thing they've ever seen, that doesn't mean that it isn't popular because it's just different than anything on the market right now.

SPEAKER_03 45:53

That probably is why why it blew up is because it is different. But and I guess I just didn't love the difference, so that's why I was like, I don't think it like why is it this popular? But it that is a fair point.

SPEAKER_05 46:03

I don't think you have to love it or anything. I think that's why it's popular, but then also because it is easily accessible, it's on YouTube, and because kids watch YouTube.

SPEAKER_03 46:14

Mm-hmm. Exactly. That's it. They say they say this TV show isn't for kids. I can guarantee you half the audience is kids.

SPEAKER_05 46:20

A lot of kids watch this show despite it not being for kids. However, I would rather them watch this than Hasman Hotel. That's just I'm I'm to that. I'm this is so much more timid. Uh I shouldn't say timid, but like it is a lot classier and more subdued than Hasbin Hotel. Like if your kid is watching this, I will have a lot more respect for you than if they're watching Hasm Hotel just saying, or Hell of a Boss, which is even more out there than Has been Hotel. And not to like hate on either of those, but the content in there is not appropriate for kids for sure.

SPEAKER_03 46:55

Um, and yeah, just circling back, I guess. Oh boy, let me gather my thoughts.

SPEAKER_05 47:00

Out of ten.

SPEAKER_03 47:01

Uh well, one thing I'll mention again. For me, what I consider a good show is that I would re-watch it again. And I would a hundred percent re-watch this again.

SPEAKER_05 47:10

I was gonna say, like, we've been having fun watching it, so I would rewatch it with it.

SPEAKER_03 47:14

I would definitely re-watch it. So, and again, this may sound harsh, but like, for it to be not good, it has to be like for me, it has to be below below five, like five or below. So, I'd give this a six, a solid six or six and a half out of ten. That's not bad. But it's not amazing, it's not horrible by any means. It's it's good.

SPEAKER_05 47:35

It's it's lovable.

SPEAKER_03 47:37

Yeah, I'd actually say that. Yeah, lovable characters in it.

SPEAKER_05 47:40

I especially love some of the random adventures they go on in the random NPCs they meet. Are that's some of the most fun parts of the show for me.

SPEAKER_02 47:48

What was that giant like chocolate monster from the I'm the Fudge. I'm the Fudge.

SPEAKER_05 47:55

He is like, is it really murder if it's delicious?

SPEAKER_02 47:59

They literally just dipped on him as that thing's devouring the kingdom.

SPEAKER_05 48:03

Yeah, they dipped that was kind of awful, but at the same time. Oh, that's hilarious.

SPEAKER_03 48:08

I love that.

SPEAKER_05 48:09

I I don't want to agree with Jax, but at the same time it's these aren't M VCs, they're not real. When we think of Gumikoo, we're like, oh no, but they have feelings, but they're still not real, so it's uh yeah, it's a it's a toughie. Anyways, um that was our episode about the Amazing Digital Circus. I don't know if I'll touch base again on the or if we'll touch base again on the last episode. That depends how much there is to talk about. Yeah, do you have any idea what we're doing next month, Lyndon?

SPEAKER_03 48:40

Not at this particular moment. It could be anything from anime to uh movie series, depending, but how about a little preview?

SPEAKER_05 48:47

Are we do do you think we'll be doing Death Note before Lord of the Rings? Oh, 100%.

SPEAKER_03 48:52

Lord of the Rings one probably won't be done for another very two years.

SPEAKER_05 48:54

I am almost on the first book though. Yes, keep it up, keep up, but we are also almost on Death Note.

SPEAKER_03 49:00

So yeah, I guess keep an eye out on the book.

SPEAKER_05 49:01

I am actually trying to finish the Devil May Cry games so that I can so that I can talk about it because I really want to talk about it. But I I don't want to do it until I've properly experienced all of it. But then the problem is then you have to like actually play it. But I'm getting better, I'm getting faster at it, so I'll I'll touch base with everybody when I am finished. And if Lyndon has not played all the games, that will make him watch all the cutscenes.

SPEAKER_01 49:26

Oh, trust me, I already have.

SPEAKER_05 49:28

Yeah, oh yeah. Okay, well I'll I'll hold you to that. You can follow us on YouTube at Tailtrail underscore podcasts or the tailtrail podcast, and we have a Discord server just called the TailTrail Server. The link is in the YouTube description. I also post sometimes post uh previews of it or updates on my own Instagram, which is at Sharose49. That's where you can find us online, but we're not all over the place, we mostly just like watching shows and hanging out, so anyways, thank you for listening. We should have like a digital circus themed outro this time.

SPEAKER_03 50:06

Hmm, what what would it be then?

SPEAKER_05 50:09

You just like Don't forget who's running the show, okay. Horrible, horrible. It could have been better.

SPEAKER_03 50:15

You all are my playthings.

SPEAKER_05 50:18

No abstracting piece by