Death Note

We discuss the morality and downfall of Light Yagami in the famous anime series Death Note. I I personally hate the guy, but why does Linden love him? Is it even possible to use the death note for anything good?  And is L the smartest detective? Joins us as we chat shinigamis, murder and accidentally steal lines from random movies while we’re at it.

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

This has been an essay on why Light Yagami is the worst character in fiction.

SPEAKER_00 0:05

He is the worst human being in the anime.

SPEAKER_01 0:10

Yep, he is the worst human being. Hi, welcome to the Tail Trail. I'm your host, Sharon, and with me is my brother Lyndon.

SPEAKER_00 0:23

How's it going?

SPEAKER_01 0:24

On the Tail Trail, we talk about stories. We both love stories. Stories of any kind are welcome on this podcast. They're up for discussion. Speaking of stories, we've got one for you today. Yeah, that wasn't very well rehearsed. Which story is it, Lyndon?

SPEAKER_00 0:40

Death Note.

SPEAKER_01 0:43

You said that like you were announcing a monster truck. This is what I was going to do. But it is Death Note. In fact, um, we watched all of Death Note, and it only took us like four weeks. It took us a little bit.

SPEAKER_00 0:57

It's a decently long anime, I'm not gonna lie.

SPEAKER_01 1:00

Yeah, 37 episodes.

SPEAKER_00 1:04

I am a little new to anime, so I don't know what makes a long time.

SPEAKER_01 1:06

It's kind of long, yeah. But it's not the longest. Like it's not one piece. Which I've never watched One Piece for that reason. Like Inuyasha and Black Clover, those were long for me. And I saw like half of Hunter Hunter, which I am which is awesome, but I didn't finish it because it is quite long. I probably should. But anyways, I did write down a plot summary for Death Note. Death Note follows a promising young honor student in Japan named Light Yagami. When a notebook with the power to kill people falls from the Shinigami realm, Light is an epiphany that he can use it to cleanse the world of all the people he deems evil. Criminals die of heart attacks at alarming rates, and a genius detective called L takes it upon himself to find this impossible serial killer. Insanely melodramatic inner monologues ensue as the two try to outwit each other. Questions and discussion, anyone?

SPEAKER_00 1:59

I love it.

SPEAKER_01 2:00

Did you have any initial thoughts before I go into the bullet points?

SPEAKER_00 2:03

Initial thoughts? Uh nothing much other than you like it? Well, we're gonna talk about that, but I thought I did really like it. One thing I guess I would say is I thought the anime was really well paced. Fully all around, it was really well paced, I think.

SPEAKER_01 2:20

If I recall, I think it was really well played paced too. If anything, it lags a bit in the second season. Because I think it felt a little long in the second season, at least when I was watching it with my husband, he was like, Why are they gonna catch this guy?

SPEAKER_00 2:36

Much longer than that.

SPEAKER_01 2:37

Alright, well, first question. Is light evil? Why or why not? I have my own answer to that, but I wanted to let Lyndon have the floor first.

SPEAKER_00 2:47

Me? Um I'd say, like, if someone like if the if the Death Note fell into our world and someone was doing that, he would 100% be an evil person. I just think it's a very how they depicted it was a very realistic way of telling the story. Because I feel like I definitely wouldn't be like this if I got the Death Note. I like I feel like an alarming amount of people would totally flip their personalities if they got this book. That's why I wasn't really surprised when uh when Light started killing all these people and like decided he was gonna be like the god of the new world. I think it's quite a natural thing for someone like that to flip like that. So I would say he's a villain, but not as evil as people depict him as.

SPEAKER_01 3:33

What kind of an answer is that? Okay, so you're like, if he was real, he would be 100% evil. But sent it to show, I kind of No, I'm not defending him. Like in the show, he is very evil, but I'm saying, like You think it's a it's a realistic depiction of what would happen to a lot of people if they got their hands on it. Yeah, I think.

SPEAKER_00 3:55

And especially how the citizens react to this, like how it starts to getting normalized. I was like, this is scary almost. Like that's how it would be. People like worshiping him, kind of like antichrist territory.

SPEAKER_01 4:07

And people like doxing people online. Seriously, like, hey, Kira, kill this person, their name is this, and their face is this. Like, that's that would absolutely happen. I hate to say it, that's horrible.

SPEAKER_00 4:18

Yeah, but basically, don't get me wrong, Light is 100% evil. I just really liked his character, and I'm not gonna say this for sure, but I low-key almost as rooting from just for the thrill of the plot.

SPEAKER_01 4:31

Just because it was funny. And I I I will be the first to say I really enjoy Death Note and that, and you can't do enjoying Death Note without enjoying Light. I hate him, but I also respect him as a character, like he is an enjoyable character to watch. And you hating him this much makes the ending that much more satisfying. So yeah, it's it is a thrill to watch, it's very good.

SPEAKER_00 4:53

I don't hate him though.

SPEAKER_01 4:54

But I have my better answer.

SPEAKER_00 4:57

Fine, go ahead and do that.

SPEAKER_01 5:00

He is evil. But he's and I'm not not with an asterisk. He's just evil. He suddenly wants to kill all disruptive people in society and believes he and he alone has the authority to determine who deserves to go with no trial or anything. He may be naive and immature, but he's also a merciless. Excuse me, he's also merciless. Forgive me, I wrote my answer down because I was feeling very passionate about it. He kills innocent people at the slightest danger to his cover. He sacrifices his accomplices and even considers sacrificing his own sister. I also don't think his motivation is very sympathetic compared to others, even Misa's. Now, Misa is not a good person either, but she I know you don't like her, but she wanted to kill the people who killed her parents. That's very understandable. Light didn't lose any parents, light didn't go through hard times, even like that guy I that character I hate, uh Tedomikami, he was like bullied incessantly. And Light was just this promising honor student who had had like a very strong. He was Trump of his class. Yeah, he was the best. He had like the brightest future ahead of him, a loving family.

SPEAKER_00 6:17

Another reason why I don't think it was that surprising.

SPEAKER_01 6:19

Doesn't have like for some people, they're desperate, and you would understand why they're using the death note. Like if if um Denji from Chainsaw Man got the death note when he was homeless and starving and trying to pay off his father's debt to the Yakuza, I would a hundred percent understand him using it to kill the Yakuza, and no one would care. No one would call him evil for doing that. But Light has no reason. He just grab takes it and thinks No, he just decides to be a god. And thinks I am the chosen one, no other person would do this. Who said this? Uh Ryuk said, Yeah, most people would never have killed as many people as you did, and they would have felt really guilty about it. So that's what is odd here. And L takes, or not L.

unknown 7:04

B.

SPEAKER_01 7:04

I keep getting 96 step. Light, light takes this as, oh see, only I can do this, only I'm equipped to do this. No, bro, that just means you're worse than most people. Actually, that's what he was saying. And Ryuk may be neutral, but that doesn't mean he doesn't recognize evil when he sees it.

SPEAKER_00 7:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 7:23

I feel like I just think there's just nothing to sympathize with him at all. Now that is okay. That's totally okay. But if there are people sympathizing with him, he's not the most sympathetic character in the story whatsoever. No, you can't. He's just completely selfish. I have another bullet point question, but did you have any other thoughts on that?

SPEAKER_00 7:43

No, not really.

SPEAKER_01 7:44

Okay, well, it's not often that stories like this are told from the killer's perspective. Why do you think it's effective here?

SPEAKER_00 7:52

I think just because it's like, first off, it's just unique. Like it's really interesting and unique to see it from the villain's point of view. And like, don't get me wrong, we get lots of different viewpoints from all the other characters, but it's definitely centered around uh like. Yeah, I think the main reason is basically that. Like you get to see, like, basically like see the villain and what's going on in his mind and how he works, you know, and uh I thought it was unique.

SPEAKER_01 8:19

Do you think some people think that if someone is a main character, that automatically means the writer is endorsing that character's actions, or that that character is supposed to be intended to be the role model. I sincerely disagree with this. Yeah. So I do not think, and I honestly forgot the author's name. I'm so sorry. The person who wrote Death Note, I do not think they were intending light to be a role model. I think they were trying to show the hubris of man's nature.

SPEAKER_02 8:50

How low we can get, you know.

SPEAKER_01 8:52

Basically, or or even just like a normal person who isn't even bad, like light wasn't bad. But then you put the right just the right amount of ingredients in, like give them just the right amount of power, and it can change even some of the best people you would know.

unknown 9:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 9:09

I'm not saying that like this that everyone would do what light did. Some people are better than that, but a lot of people would. And that's the scary thing about humans.

SPEAKER_00 9:20

I feel like another thing, I feel like the anime is very um symbolic.

SPEAKER_01 9:25

Oh, well, absolutely. Heavily, for sure. Like, even just in the intros, the uh imagery is very Christian, although that's probably like because of it's it's a gothic show. Um Naomi Mister holding uh Ray Penber like the the Saint Madonna statue, you know? Or even just the apples. Oh boy, did Light ever bite that apple? But and then Ryuke ate all the apples, but we love Ryuk here. Ryuki is Ryuki's actually my favorite character, but we'll get into that later. But speaking of the right ingredients, do you, Lyndon, think Death Note is like the one ring from Lord of the Rings, as in no one is able to wield it without being corrupted? Or is it possible for human beings to use it for good at all? I will say Light's father briefly uses the notebook in the movie in the show with moral restraint. You saw that, right?

SPEAKER_00 10:22

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_01 10:23

So it seems like it is possible.

SPEAKER_00 10:25

Very unlikely, but I feel like uh it's not like like the ring, again, I can't wait to do an actual episode on uh Lord of the Rings.

SPEAKER_01 10:36

Me too.

SPEAKER_00 10:36

But I would say they're similar in the way of like with the Death Note, if anyone gets the Death Note and they figure out its power, there there would most definitely be temptation to use it like that. So there is a similarity with the ring on like the temptation side, but where versus like the ring, it like it will tempt you, like it is meant to corrupt minds. So like like that's its power. So it's not similar in that way, but in terms of like temptation, they they both have that aspect.

SPEAKER_01 11:13

So it's less like the one ring and more like a billion dollars?

SPEAKER_00 11:18

Yes, very much so.

SPEAKER_01 11:20

Because a billion dollars isn't good or evil, it's just money. But you could use money easily to kill people, maybe, or so or do other bad things, or you could let it get to your head and act like you're better than everyone else just because you have money. So we're not taking the death note to the mountains of Mordor.

SPEAKER_00 11:43

Nope. Oh yeah, follow one of the one of the like Ryuke to the their language.

SPEAKER_01 11:49

Oh my gosh, imagine a Death Note version of Lord of the Rings where Ryuke is column. I was actually just gonna say wait, so like let's say L and Light are like Sam and Frodo.

SPEAKER_00 12:00

Oh my goodness.

SPEAKER_01 12:02

Oh crazy. I don't even know how that like how the interactions would be. No. Because like the personality of L is nothing like Sam. And Frodo is much nicer than Light, but I I would be curious to see an interaction between Ryuk and Gollum. Speaking of, the hunt for Gollum is coming out, isn't it?

SPEAKER_00 12:23

Yes, I can't wait for that. 2027.

SPEAKER_01 12:25

Okay, I must have seen an article about it recently because I was like, oh, is that coming out? Huh. Alright on. But yeah, is it possible to use the Death Note for good? I think actually, yes. Like, let's say it's it seems like almost impossible for people using it not to use it in a bad way. Like if they kept it. A little bit like, do you remember on Sonic was it Sonic 2 when Knuckles takes the emerald and like compresses it and hides it in a place where nobody can find it? Because he knows that somebody is gonna come and find it. And sure enough, Sonic demands that he show him in the next movie, and he's like, This is why it's hidden. So that like one person shouldn't have that much power. To be fair, like I don't think Sonic lets the power get to his head. I think Sonic is just angry, he's so angry. But then him, him and Shadow share the power together, and then they use it positively. So I think maybe that's not the best analogy, but because like in the past, obviously, like the Echidnas used that very bad. Like they wiped out entire armies, like one guy wiped out entire armies.

SPEAKER_00 13:36

I get your point.

SPEAKER_01 13:37

But is it sort of like I feel like the death note, like Soichiro Yagami, Light's dad, he uses it to threaten Melo and to kill certain people that they needed to kill in order to save his daughter, if I recall correctly. And then he uses the death note to threaten Melo. And of course, Light's like, what are you doing? Kill him, kill him. But I think there's a very intentional reason why he would do that. He's like, if I just start, you know, killing everybody, that's you know, that's bad. Like if I have to kill someone and I happen to have the notebook to do it, then that's one thing. But he doesn't want to kill anybody. Yeah, I would say if you used it like one time in an emergency situation and then locked it up or burned it or something.

SPEAKER_00 14:23

That's what I would do. Yeah, but I feel like if you're keeping the book like permanently with you, like using it, I don't think it's possible to use it for good.

SPEAKER_01 14:33

No, I don't either.

SPEAKER_00 14:34

It's like you have to use it for good and then get rid of it.

SPEAKER_01 14:36

I was gonna say, like, what if there was like a really strict like government around it? Then I'm like, actually, that would just make the government.

SPEAKER_00 14:42

No government.

SPEAKER_01 14:43

No government, please. Here's my solution. A bunch of super, super devout monks and nuns guard the death note and only allow people to use it if they pass a series of moral tests. And then they only get one one shot with the death note. And this is my solution to the only way to use the death note for good. But I think you're right. If you kept the death note, there's just no way you wouldn't use it to kill people that you didn't have to. You would start using it conveniently and people get in the way. Or even using it to uh to threaten people, blackmail people, and so on. Control people. It's not something it's probably not something anybody should have. That's a whole lot worse than a gun. Anyways. Here is a weird question that we might not be able to answer, but I still thought it was worth asking. Is Al smarter than Sherlock Holmes?

SPEAKER_00 15:43

Uh I would say without a doubt. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 15:45

What?

SPEAKER_00 15:46

I think so. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 15:47

What? No. No.

SPEAKER_00 15:50

I think it's because they didn't show us to it in as much detail. Because like Sherlock Holmes is the main character of that show, so you see everything that's going on inside his mind. If you look at how quickly Light figures out these things.

SPEAKER_01 16:02

You mean L.

SPEAKER_00 16:03

We're sorry, oh my goodness.

SPEAKER_01 16:04

I remember they do the same thing. Why did you give them both L names?

SPEAKER_00 16:07

Okay. L, my apologies. L figures everything out so quickly and so fast without even being there in person.

SPEAKER_01 16:18

That's true.

SPEAKER_00 16:19

He's always in a separate room just gathering intel.

SPEAKER_01 16:23

And he was able to deduce, like within the first episode or so, that he was a student living in the Kanto region of Japan.

SPEAKER_00 16:33

Okay, yeah. Let me correct my original answer. I'll say they like both have have a run for their money. Like Sherlock Holmes is no doubt like one of the most smart characters uh ever written. But yeah, I still think like uh L. Oh my goodness. I still think L would win. Yes.

SPEAKER_01 16:52

I want to say you're right only because L is deducing something that's kind of impossible to prove because it's not tangible, it's completely supernatural. And Sherlock is deducing stuff based on actual things and people. So well, I mean, not that there are no people involved in the Kira case, but I don't want to say that Sherlock isn't close because I think their styles of deduction are quite similar. And I think that Sherlock could probably find out a lot of the same things, it's just having next to nothing to go off of in figuring out that they're being aired on TV and stuff. So I think Sherlock could come to those conclusions, but then with all the supernatural stuff and how well Elle does, despite not even believing in the supernatural at first, is insane. I would love to see them battle it out, to be honest. But I want to say the L wins, I just don't have enough conclusive research or evidence to back that up. But off the top of my head, it does seem that way. And that is no offense to Sherlock. I really like Sherlock. I only seen the BBC show, like the the newer one. Well, it's not new, but like the Benedict Cumberbatch one. I think I saw three seasons of that and it was really good, but it would be hard to beat Elle. In a perfect world, we would have Sherlock, L, and Columbo working together too. Yeah, solving all the mysteries in the world. Well, there are some other really good detectives too. I'm just less familiar with them. I'd have to, I need to watch more detective stuff, honestly. I'll write. Favorite character.

SPEAKER_00 18:32

Alright, should I go first?

SPEAKER_01 18:33

Go ahead.

SPEAKER_00 18:34

Favorite character.

SPEAKER_01 18:35

If you say light, I'm gonna I'm sorry guys.

SPEAKER_00 18:40

It's light. And specifically for his writing. Everything just I love like this long monologue that they go on. Like, I'm gonna do this. And then I'll eat a potato chip.

SPEAKER_03 18:55

I'll take a potato chip and eat it.

SPEAKER_00 18:58

There we go. That's what he says. Like the way he was written, everything, like it he's just a really well-written character. It was really close between him and El, though. I like El is such a good character, like they're both great. And then honorable mention to Ryuke, but Ryuke, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 19:16

So light, of course, I'm not gonna lie, I love the stupid inner monologues that him and Elle have, so that like the internet has a bunch of like parody versions, which aren't even that far off from the actual ones. It's like, oh, you know, say you want to meet Monday. It's like, okay, and then he's like, Monday? I can't believe this. Like, I see what you're doing. Like, like, and it's nothing. Yeah, yeah. And tennis, it's like, if I ask Elle if he's British, what will he say? And he's like, and he literally says out loud, like, I did go to school in the UK, but I can assure you that that will not help you in your investigation. Because he already knows that he's like, Oh, Elle's British. I've got something. He's like, you know. He sure doesn't sound British. Then again, we were watching an English dub that wasn't an English dub of a Japanese show. The only English dub I've seen that utilizes accents to help determine where people are from is Monster. I could be wrong. There's probably other ones, but I remember that one struck me because the characters are already speaking English, even though we're supposed to assume they're speaking German or no German because it's not set in Japan. But then when they go to England, the characters they from England speak with British accents, and they are like, Oh, I'm sorry, we don't understand what you're saying, even though they're both speaking English, but we have to assume the people who sound like uh they're speaking American English are actually speaking German. And I was like, I have never seen a dub like this. So that's really funny. Yeah, I I think that's actually a cool way to do like a dub of an international show. But yeah, there's a lot of countries in that show.

SPEAKER_00 21:02

Alright, your favorite character.

SPEAKER_01 21:04

My favorite character is Ryuk. I was gonna say L. Part of me wants to say L because I really do love him. I love the stupid way he holds everything. He picks up a cell phone like he's holding a piece of paper. He even holds guns that way, and he doesn't know how to peel a banana for how how much of a genius he is. He can't do that apparently. And he's like building towers of his candies and just sitting sitting like a creep, but unintentionally so. Uh there's something something really endearing and even a bit relatable about how he just does not give a crap about his looks and and about how socially awkward he is. He just doesn't care how he comes across to people. He's really he can come across as almost manipulative, but I don't think he's intending to be that way, but he knows he'll come across that way, and he doesn't care. But he he just respects. People even if they judge him because he's so weird.

SPEAKER_00 22:04

So he'd be your second favorite.

SPEAKER_01 22:06

He's my second favorite, but I like Ryuke because Ryuk just makes me smile. He makes me happy. He is so funny. And he I love when he gets apples. It just makes me happy. Ryuke isn't is not just a silly character though. He is a bit scary. I'd say he's more funny than scary, but but he's a bit scary. Like he doesn't mess around. And he I want to say he's like the authority in Death Note because he told Light from the beginning that if you if you choose to use this, that means I'm gonna be writing your name into Death Note. But Light doesn't even think about that because he's so focused on the now. But when your time is up, your time is up. So Ryuke never lied to Light, but Light didn't really take his words with much weight. And Ryuke, just like in real life, you know, death is death. It's not really good or bad, it just is. Like I guess you could say death is bad. But the person like in charge of when that happens is kind of not really here or there. It's not like, oh, I want to kill you. You know, he he wasn't like, oh, I want to kill Light. If anything, he was maybe showing a bit of mercy to light in the end, because he's like, Yeah, well, you could rot in jail or I could just kill you.

SPEAKER_00 23:29

Um he purely did it for the reason that he didn't want to wait.

SPEAKER_01 23:33

Yeah. I think part of him is like, oh, he doesn't he's just bored and he doesn't care. But the other part I think is like he has a bit of a soft spot for light and the times they've had together, and it's been really fun. But he's like, but at the same time, all things must come to an end. So yeah, he does end up being kind of a profound character, even with all the goofy antics and the apple eating. Um, he also just has a killer design, I would so wear a Ryu hoodie or whatever, no matter how scary it would look to mom and dad. Because they don't know that this guy is actually the best character in the in the show. Yes, I love Ryuk. Uh shout out to Brian Drummond, who played not just Ryuke, but a bajillion characters in that show. We almost started getting tired of hearing his voice every time a bystander opened his mouth and it was Brian again. We were like, Brian, they're not paying you enough, my man.

SPEAKER_03 24:29

Yeah, seriously.

SPEAKER_01 24:31

They just cast him as not just additional voices, but all additional voices.

SPEAKER_00 24:37

Literally, they're like, We got we begged this guy just because he can do everyone's voice, you know?

SPEAKER_01 24:42

Yeah, I'm kind of I don't want to say I'm old enough because like this is before my time, but I like watch some like old Sonic cartoons and he even played not maybe not Sonic. Was it Sonic or Knuckles that he played in Sonic Underground? I don't remember, but he's in he's in shows like that, and he's in lots of like kids' shows who grew up watching like Martha Speaks and Geronimo Stilton, playing just so many characters. So hearing him as this like really kind of scary character is so funny if you recognize his voice from Geronimo Stilton, but he's got quite a range, so I do have to give a shout-out to him. Also, L. I had no idea that his voice actor plays most of the love interests from the Barbie movies I grew up watching. I had no idea, but now I can't unhear it. It's actually I just didn't think of it. But now that I listened to it, I'm like, no, that that's a hundred percent. He's not even doing a different voice, that's just him. So oh man, those voice actors sure got around back then. Alright, least favorite character, and you're gonna give me a whole essay on why Misa sucks.

SPEAKER_00 25:56

No, I won't give you a whole uh essay, but yeah, Misa, I really hate her character. Just like those people, like the the people they are and just existing in shows. I hate them. I hate their guts. It's just like ooh, your personality. It's like if I was Elle, I would have or no, sorry, not Elle. If I was light.

SPEAKER_01 26:17

Elle even liked me, so light hates me. Elle is like, she actually is kind of cute.

SPEAKER_00 26:22

If I was light, I already would have killed her. Like, she's so annoying. But and then my second least favorite character is um Rem. I really hate Rem. And I know a lot of people will probably disagree with me on that, but it's like the first person you decide to like care about, though like the only person you decide to care about is my least favorite character. So it's like that instantly puts you in the second place position.

SPEAKER_01 26:47

I like Rem. I think she's what she's trying to do is no like I don't think that Misa is a good person, but I think her love for Misa is admirable, and she is able to see how disgusting people are. Like, she's not like, oh, I think this person is like I this this person's neither here or there for me. Like in the Yotsuba group, those businessmen, she's like, no, these people are absolutely disgusting. Um, but with Misa, I think she sees her kind of as an innocent child who is being misled, which is kind of true. But she's also probably old enough to know better, so it's kind of it's a bit confusing because he comes across as innocent and sweet and naive, despite the fact that she loves Kira and supports what he does and will do whatever he says, in but that's also kind of a way to pay him back for what he did for her, because he like indirectly killed the guy who killed her parents. So she feels like she's indebted to him. So I do kind of understand that. And I understand that Rem would see her as not as bad as some of the other people. And if you've been watching her for a long time, like she was, she watched a guy who was watching her before, and then he died, and then she took over, and it's kind of hard not to get attached to somebody who you're watching them live their life. It's a bit like a mom and a child or something. So no, I don't hate Rem. I would hate Misa more than Rem, even though I don't hate Misa either. But I also kind of understand because like Misa is kind of a one-dimensional character to me. I think she's like a fun character to watch, kind of in the way like where a bad guy has like a sycophant, like a sidekick who is or you know what, that's the wrong word. Like like a kiss-up, like an absolute bootligger, you know, like um Dr. Stone in the Sonic movies. I kind of I like him. I like him. Even though he's stupid for staying with Dr. Robotnik, who is completely verbally and emotionally abusive and physically abusive. And the reason he stays though is because of that pure childlike admiration for his work and for who he is and for his genius. And another one like that is like on you haven't seen Iny Yasha yet, but like the little green guy, Jockin, who gets like rescued by Lord Sashomer, and then he follows him everywhere, just like, oh my lord is so beautiful, my lord is the most powerful, anyone who looks at my lord will taste it. You know, and and but this guy steps on him and tests his sword on him, and yet he's still like, Oh, my lord is the greatest. And we kind of enjoy these characters become shocked when like the guy treats him badly, and then we are like laughing even though we feel bad when he still gets up and follows him in the end. Cause it's there is something that's kind of funny or enduring about that, and I sort of see Misa in a similar way. Um she's just incredibly stupid for being around light when he clearly has the worst of motivations when it comes to women. Oh wow, the women in his life, he treats them really bad. Those are the parts where I think what he did to uh oh what's her name?

SPEAKER_03 29:57

I can't remember.

SPEAKER_01 29:58

What he did to that news anchor lady, I forgot her name. I think at that point was when my husband was like, Alright, this guy needs to die. This is okay, this is a step too far, you know? And that was particularly morbid. You're just like, oh why? You like made her believe that you loved her, and then you like leave her naked in a burning truck. It's just horrific. Yeah. Light sucks. I don't think Misa sucks as much, and I think she would maybe be a better she would be a better character if she was more like human instead of like the cliche of being like a a kiss-up and an idol and just idolizing light. Like I think she could have more to her than that, but but she's not your least favorite character. No, she's not my least favorite character. I actually I I said I enjoy her in that way where I enjoy those stupid kiss-up characters, like those really cartoony sidekicks to like villains. So I do enjoy her in that respect, but she I think she could definitely be better. My least favorite character is Teru Mikami.

SPEAKER_03 31:07

Delete, delete, delete.

SPEAKER_01 31:10

I I've been told I have an excellent memory, and I think the truth is I have an excellent selective memory because like I'll watch a show and I'll be able to like tell people everything that happens in that show, and they'll be like, How do you remember everything? And I guess if I really liked the show, I'm remembering so much of it, and I'm like, Oh, it was so good, but then the stuff that wasn't that good was just right out of my brain. And then so when we were watching it again, because I watched it with my husband, and then I watched it with you, and I and then Terry Mikami enters the scene, and I'm like, I forgot this man existed, and I rem I know why, it's because he was lame, lame, lame. I didn't like him. The only thing I like about him is how freaking dramatic he is. He is so crazy, like the way he writes on the desk, he's like running from one side of the desk to the other as if he's like writing the name across the entire desk, which doesn't even make sense because the notebook isn't that big. And his like stupid obsessive habits of like going to the gym, or when he's like writing all those notes and then he like falls to his knees so dramatically, or even just to the way he like talks, he's like I like it is kind of funny to watch, but that's all he is, like his backstory about being bullied. I would say that gives him a better motivation than light, but he it's also like so cliche and boring that everyone watching is like boo, cry about it, we don't care. So, like if he was trying, if they were trying to make him sympathetic there, it was just we do not care.

SPEAKER_03 32:48

We do not care.

SPEAKER_01 32:49

So I thought he was like a really weak character who is kind of funny to watch, but he's also not in the show very much. I don't know if he's in the manga more, but yeah, when he comes on, I'm kind of like, oh this guy. Except for the funny parts with him, but he's pretty boring and sad. We have ran out of notes other than final thoughts on the story. So I guess this can be like a free-for-all. I should have written more notes. I thought I wrote more, but final thoughts.

SPEAKER_00 33:19

I mean, I guess we could one character we could talk about is Light's father.

SPEAKER_01 33:25

Yeah, or Mellow.

SPEAKER_00 33:27

Mellow too, I like Mellow. Or Nier.

SPEAKER_01 33:31

Nier far. Near far.

SPEAKER_00 33:34

Nier is underrated. He's a really good character, I think.

SPEAKER_01 33:38

People who hate him are just mad that L died.

SPEAKER_00 33:41

You guys are diehards, grow up.

SPEAKER_01 33:43

I love L too, and I was really sad when he died because I surprisingly I grew up without really knowing much about Death Note, even though it was so popular. So when I actually watched it, I didn't really know anything about it other than the memes. So I didn't know L was gonna die, and I really didn't think he would, and so I was pretty heartbroken when that happened.

SPEAKER_00 34:03

I saw it coming, I knew it was gonna happen, and I was sad when it happened, but I was I was like, all good things come to an end.

SPEAKER_01 34:10

At least Nier didn't die.

SPEAKER_00 34:12

Yeah, Nier was I feel like he was even smarter than El, but like he had a lot more to work on.

SPEAKER_01 34:18

Well, he's so young, but he had what Elle did as a L set the stage for him to come in. So Nier wasn't working with nothing like El was. So that's a huge advantage that Nier has, not to underestimate Nier, but he is a child and he did have a lot more to work with, thankfully. So and I'm not saying that's a like I'm not saying that to be like, oh, he sucks. No, it's just to be fair. So L probably is smarter than Nier just because he was working with nothing and Nier was not.

SPEAKER_00 34:51

I guess we don't know for sure.

SPEAKER_01 34:52

Yeah, but at the same time, that doesn't mean you still have to give Nier credit for coming to this.

SPEAKER_00 34:58

Yeah, I will say Nier, I found I found took way more action than L. He started attacking like Nier just started like, let's do this, let's do this, let's do this. He's just like straight to the point.

SPEAKER_01 35:11

Elle kept like pussy footing around, yeah. And then he's like, he put he knows it's slight, and he knows it's Misa, and he locks him up, but he can't prove it, and he can't keep them locked up forever, so he lets them go. But you're right, Mir is taking action with his team, whereas El is more like, ah, he's doing like a whole bunch of tests, you know. So they do have a different way of going about things, and perhaps Nier's method is more effective. You're right. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 35:41

Nier's method was more effective, and he was his personality is much more unforgiving. Like he's just like, we're doing this and deal with it, kind of thing.

SPEAKER_01 35:48

Like he's yeah, you know what? Elle has more sympathy for others, yeah. And Nier has less.

SPEAKER_00 35:55

Nir's very respectful, he doesn't have none.

SPEAKER_01 35:59

He doesn't have none, but he's like, that's just the way it is.

SPEAKER_00 36:01

Yeah, we're getting this done.

SPEAKER_01 36:02

He's like Yeah, and he's a child too, so that's what's really striking about him. He's a child, but nobody treats him totally like a child because of the way he speaks and that presence he carries is just so yeah, it's straight to the point, unforgiving, he knows what's going on, and you don't. Not in a way where you're he's condescending towards you, but you quickly realize that this guy is smarter than you, even if he is a child, so he he just needs you to accompany him to the airport and buy him toys. And and I like that it wasn't like a cringy sort of way, it's like, oh, he's a kid, so he like throws tantrums or something.

SPEAKER_00 36:42

Well, that was another thing about the symbolic side of things. Like Nier likes to play with toys as he's as you're as he's talking about his analogies and like talking about how he's gonna catch them or what their next step is, they're he's fiddling with the toys or whatnot. And then when L is doing the same thing, he's fiddling around with the candy or he's eating chocolates or something like that. I feel like it's a little symbolic, as in like that's how they operate, like they do this while thinking, and it's like Well, I think that orphanage, Watari's orphanage where they kind of raise up detectives, must be like a detective school for highly autistic children.

SPEAKER_01 37:23

Because look at them all, none of them are normal. Um that is not to say, yeah, Mello, what the heck? Like, he looks like a pirate, like a gothic Lolita pirate, dude.

SPEAKER_02 37:36

Something like that.

SPEAKER_01 37:37

Um, not to be mean or anything, because like I think all these characters are really cool, but they're not your average people.

SPEAKER_03 37:44

Nope.

SPEAKER_01 37:45

Um, and I don't know exactly why that is, or or if you have to be autistic to be at that or finish, but I like that Nir is a child. They don't like make it so that he's basically an adult. He is as intelligent as an adult. But since he is a child, he's still like he never you never see him without a toy in his hand. And you see him like decorating a Christmas tree, building uh a railroad, and yes, he uses them as like sort of like set pieces to illustrate his theories, but he also I think just enjoys playing with toys. Like on in the airplane, he's like, Okay, you take the robot and I'll take the teddy bear or whatever, right? Like, and it's all like you don't hear him say this, so it's like this unspoken thing, but everyone acknowledges that he is in fact a child, they respect him, but they also respect that he's a child, and I love that so much. And even he knows that he's a child. I think he's a tiny bit embarrassed about it, like when he's like, Well, you I can't go to the airport by myself. He's a little embarrassed about it, but he's also like, Well, that's just the way it is. I am a child, and that's how society works.

SPEAKER_00 38:55

So oh, and then by the way, how does Melon not gain weight by all the chocolate he's eating?

SPEAKER_01 39:00

Because it's dark chocolate.

SPEAKER_00 39:01

It could that's a good point, but I feel like it might not be.

SPEAKER_01 39:04

No, I think I think it's dark chocolate. Okay. Some people love that.

SPEAKER_00 39:07

Well, then that just makes sense.

SPEAKER_01 39:08

And that's actually really good. That's actually really good for your heart, dark chocolate. But not that it saved him in the end. Enough dark chocolate to save me from the death note.

SPEAKER_00 39:19

He died in an honorable way.

SPEAKER_01 39:21

Surprisingly, I okay, so here's another thing, selective memory. Mellow isn't in the series as much, so when I watched it the first time, I sort of I thought that Melo was bad, and then we I watched it with you, and I'm like, did I miss something? He was actually not a great guy, but like no, but he was trying to stop Kira, and he was willing to die to do that, and that makes him uh miles, miles more sympathetic than a lot of the other characters. Like, like he was willing to die to to stop Kira. And look at Kira, look at Light. He sacrificed everyone and everything. He will he will sacrifice anyone but himself. He never puts himself at risk, ever. So that's part of why he's so pathetic. Because there are villains who are evil and yet they have they have the strength and the selflessness to put themselves on the line to achieve what they believe is right. This guy does not, he's an absolute wussy. So in the end, when he is caught, he's just flailing around like Mesa, anyone, someone help me. And I'm just and it's just like this is what you were the whole time hiding behind that persona, hiding behind that persona and sending everyone else to die for you. This, but and you're it's like, oh, you're so scary. This guy is like God. No, he's just a pathetic individual, just disgusting and selfish. That's all. And it's so satisfying for that to really be confirmed and laid before everyone's eyes in the end.

SPEAKER_00 40:56

Take away all the powers, and you're just an open show.

SPEAKER_01 41:00

I know guys are with none of that worth 10 of you.

SPEAKER_00 41:02

Something like that.

SPEAKER_01 41:04

Stealing lines from Avengers now, are we? But um it just reminded me that standoff between Captain America and Iron Man. He's like, without take the suit off, and what are you? He's like, Oh, I'm I'm a genius, billionaire, playboy, philanthropist. And he's like, I I know guys with none of that worth 10 of you. But I guess Tony Stark is not light, though. He's still not as bad as light. Oh man.

SPEAKER_00 41:27

I personally love Iron Man. Oh, oh, I like him.

SPEAKER_01 41:30

I like him, and he grows as a character. I'm saying he's he's not light. Like, imagine Captain America talking to Light Young.

SPEAKER_00 41:38

Oh, that'll be we gotta make those.

SPEAKER_01 41:41

You'd just be like, you know what? Just die.

SPEAKER_00 41:43

Yep, seriously.

SPEAKER_01 41:45

Shut up, Joe, die. Just stop breathing. And now I'm bringing Medea into this. Why? Oh, okay. But I guess I do watch too many movies, or my memory is just too my selective memory is just too good for specific lines. So I remember all these things and scare people because they're like, when did you last see them? Like, oh, that must have been years ago.

SPEAKER_00 42:05

I I actually am similar that way because that we'll be talking about something and I'll pull a line from a different movie and they'll be like, Well, hold up. What are we talking about? I'm like, oh, sorry.

SPEAKER_01 42:14

I think some families just do that because my husband's family is like scared and they think that's weird, and then us we're just like we've always done that though.

SPEAKER_00 42:23

Yeah, our household just like half our dialogue are just quotes from different things.

SPEAKER_01 42:28

Does that mean all of us are like borderline autistic?

SPEAKER_00 42:31

I feel like we just love we have a passion for movies.

SPEAKER_01 42:34

I think we were just so isolated, or maybe we just maybe some people are just more inclined to remember stuff that they care about. So we just really care about stories, maybe more than the average person who kind of like zones out when they watch TV. But for us, we're like TV is like the highlight of the day. We're like, oh heck yeah, we're gonna watch the crap out of this thing.

SPEAKER_03 42:55

Right.

SPEAKER_01 42:56

We watched like Madagascar from 2005 on rotation. I could have I could have quoted that entire movie at one point.

SPEAKER_00 43:03

Yeah, that's like with me with Tintin. When I was sick, I once watched that five times in one day. I could probably quote the whole movie roughly exactly.

SPEAKER_01 43:13

But we are actually getting close to the end of the time, and we haven't really rated Death Note, have we? I just wanted to say, I wanted to acknowledge how culturally how much of a cultural impact Death Note has had. Um long before I ever saw it, Death Note, I like there were so many Death Note references that I knew of.

SPEAKER_00 43:36

It's been a staple for me. Like the memes.

SPEAKER_01 43:38

There's just so many memes. Like, even people who haven't seen Death Note, they kind of vaguely may have heard of a notebook where you write someone's name in it and then they just or like the I've won. Or even like the Death Note music, like the like the Latin, like funeral sounding music that plays. The really dramatic music that plays when they start thinking like and like you know, people have been using that for a long time, and we just kind of got used to it without even knowing where it came from. And now I'm watching the show and I'm like, hey, I've heard this before.

SPEAKER_00 44:17

Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 44:18

And it's and it's awesome, it's great to finally be in on the joke. Sorry it took me so long, fellas.

SPEAKER_00 44:25

Same with me.

SPEAKER_01 44:26

Uh like now that I watched it, I get everything that our older brother, or your older brother, and my younger brother, he was like, You haven't seen Death Note? When we watched it and we were talking about it, and he was like, Wait, you didn't see it before now?

SPEAKER_03 44:41

I guess you wouldn't be surprised.

SPEAKER_01 44:43

He was like, How did you because he knows I watch anime? Like I'd always heard of it, but I didn't really know if I was interested or not. Because like I'd only heard like tiny little things about it. So and I guess it was when it came out, I was like pretty young, so I didn't watch it at that time. But so yeah, for me, I wanna say Death Note's gotta be like an eight or nine out of ten, because just the re-watchability of this thing, the entertainment value is so high. Like, after you watch it, you'll think about it a lot, and it's just super fun.

SPEAKER_00 45:14

It's so fun, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 45:16

Like, it's got more to it than just fun, but I do find that it's just very entertaining. The character dynamics are really funny, even just the back and forth. Okay, one thing I will say Death Note would not work without the inner monologues. You would have these scenes with like no dialogue.

SPEAKER_00 45:31

Yeah, it would be boring.

SPEAKER_01 45:32

People just sitting there and making faces. But the super dramatic inner monologue is part of why it's so funny, because you kind of want that to see how crazy how like how they can out crazy each other. Like each each um monologue becomes more and more intense and and like outlandish. You're like, yeah, that's a reach, but they might be right, you know. So it's it's really funny to watch. If you don't have any context, I think you'd be like, What the heck is this? But with context, it's sort of like Sherlock on steroids or something.

SPEAKER_00 46:08

Basically, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 46:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 46:10

For me, uh yeah, just the pacing, uh, the whole story itself, easily like it's an easily an eight for me. I wouldn't quite put it at a nine, because we're gonna do many other shows. I'll try to keep my standards kind of high, but this is this is an eight for sure. It's going strong on eight. Character-wise, like I'll say like light gets an eight out of ten as a character. L gets like an eight, like, yeah, super well written.

SPEAKER_01 46:37

I wanna say it's a ten out of ten for just being so iconic. Like, Death Note is iconic.

SPEAKER_00 46:43

Iconic-wise, it's a ten out of ten.

SPEAKER_01 46:44

Yeah, so as far as like like visually and like it's staying power in the culture, Death Note is a ten out of ten. But like story-wise, I'm gonna say it's at least an eight because like it's not perfect, but it is it's quite good, and it's super entertaining. You cannot deny the entertaining factor, and it's like super kind of unnecessarily complicated, but in a very fun way. So I know there are YouTube uh what do you call it, like character analysis videos where they're like Elle should have caught Kira way faster or something, or Kira should have been caught way faster, and maybe that's true, but I still feel like we're overestimating ourselves quite a bit if we think we could catch Kira that fast. But at the same time, like, yeah, there are some parts of the show that are probably like dumb, you know, we're like, why did you do that? You know, but it's always satisfying to see Light, you know, start to get more and more dumb and more and more cocky because just speedrunning his own downfall, and I'm always happy to watch that over and over and over again. That's the most iconic. Um I don't want to say like death scene, but like just the downfall of a villain. Light's downfall is like the best, best I've ever seen. It's so satisfying. You just like relish in his suffering. You're just like, yeah, yeah. I was so happy when that happened. I was just sending messages to everyone, like, light's dead.

SPEAKER_00 48:10

I was satisfied too, but but it was like it's the end of an era.

SPEAKER_01 48:14

It's you do feel sad because then the show is over, and you're kind of like, oh, then there's no more show, and that's sad. I I have not seen the movie that follows it.

SPEAKER_00 48:24

Oh, wait, no, you're talking about the animated movie.

SPEAKER_01 48:26

No, not the Netflix bullcraft, no. I mean the I think there's actually an animated movie set in universe.

SPEAKER_02 48:36

And I know we should watch it.

SPEAKER_01 48:37

Yeah, we should. I don't know if it changes anything, but we could at least watch it.

SPEAKER_02 48:41

I've heard monologues and stuff like that.

SPEAKER_01 48:44

I've heard that light might be a Shinigami in it or something because the person who used the Death Note can't go to heaven or hell. Even if he deserves to go to hell, I don't be curious to see it. So, anyways, thank you so much for listening. Next month, or maybe within this month, sorry we skipped a month, but uh within this month or next month, we'll probably be doing an episode on the series Alf. It's a sitcom we've just really been enjoying watching on Saturday mornings over breakfast. It'll be a different kind of discussion because it's more self-contained, but we're ready to try it. And uh anything else you want to say before we pull the plug?

SPEAKER_00 49:28

Not really, other than uh this world is made of Love and Peace.

SPEAKER_01 49:33

That was our try again. Are we just like stealing that for other people?

SPEAKER_00 49:36

I guess we'll just steal it for most of them. Well, no, no, no.

SPEAKER_01 49:38

Until the author sues us.

SPEAKER_00 49:42

We could do that. Or we could do it with Death Note style. How how how would we end it Death Note style?

SPEAKER_01 49:47

Well, it's been fun. Writes the tail trailer.

SPEAKER_00 49:50

Oh, you mean that's that's what Ryuk said. Yeah, yeah. Well, yeah, that way it works.

SPEAKER_01 49:55

Or we could end it by saying, I've won. Uh, I can't think of anything good. But we will see you in the next one. Cheers.